Facts alone are not convincing. Facts alone are not even an argument - they must be interpreted, and the interpreter must start with some assumptions. Without assumptions, there is no framework in which to make sense of the facts. Creationists and evolutionists butt heads so often because they come from totally different assumptions at exactly the same facts without recognising what they're assuming. Each also assumes that the other side needs only to "see the facts" and they will be convinced. When the raw facts are presented, each side interprets them according to their own assumptions, then wonders why the other side comes to different conclusions when the facts are so "clear".
Mokalus of Borg
PS - You can't argue without questioning your assumptions.
PPS - Otherwise you're just ranting, not engaging in debate.
6 comments:
You're wasting your time if you're arguing with a belief system. Because in the end it comes down to self-fulfilling belief.
I could believe that the Matrix is real, because it is possible, even though I've never seen it. Some 'facts' even support it. The deja vu theory is very plausible, for instance.
If people can go as far as the pope without ever actually witnessing god, that should be proof enough that rationale doesn't enter into the religion equation.
How are those animal sacrifices going, by the way? ;)
Deja vu can also be explained by saying that aliens are stealing your memories and putting them back a little bit jumbled. The point is that if you start by assuming that is the correct explanation, all other relevant facts will support your theory too, once they're "properly" interpreted. Unless the assumption is questioned, it cannot be disproved with pure logic or even observations.
I totally agree with that. You have to understand though that most people who believe in evolution were probably raised under some kind of religious system, and had already stripped away one set of beliefs.
It's really believing in the dark nothing behind other beliefs. It's hard to question what you believe when you don't believe in anything.
I don't pretend to speak for the whole church of evolutionism, though. I don't get the newsletter since I moved.
Read our religious text:
http://www.wikipedia.org/
"The fascinating thing about cognitive dissonance is that it’s immune to intelligence."
- Scott Adams
It's hard to question what you believe when you don't believe in anything.
Everyone believes in something, and everyone starts from their own point of view when interpreting their observations of the world. If you believe in nothing, then your observations are meaningless and you may draw no conclusions from them, since any conclusion is a belief.
I read the Dilbert Blog for a while, but found Scott's style to be arrogant and deliberately provocative. In any other forum, he'd be called a troll.
I can see this discussion going in a similar direction, though, so I may close it off soon, just to keep things generally good-natured.
True, everyone believes in a lot of things for them to make practical decisions. But there are no beliefs as huge as religion. If you're part of a religious system, your god pretty much is everything you should be believing in.
Without religion everything has a different meaning, everything is separate. There's no god that created it all in some divine plan, it's all just there for no reason at all.
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